Something Big!

[DRUMS01]

Well thanks COR, Neil, Tomcat, and digger; Jarrod really likes it when I read the feedback to him. I believe it is that sense of belonging to something, and its association he enjoys.

We've been a little busy on trying to get through the cockpit stuff. First, we finished up on the lower left and right Aux cockpit panels. The left has the landing gear lever, gear indicator, anti-skid switch, and Emergency Jett (?); while the right has the Brake/Hydraulic indicator, Hydraulic Accumulator, Annunuciator Panel, and Cabin Pressure dial. Here they are in the raw:



Part of that work required us to layer the aux panels. Currently the Cabin Pressure space is just a square piece of sheet plastic, but it will eventually have a gage added to it.

Speaking of gages, here is what the 3d gage decals from Quinta look like; I will be using as many of these as realistically practical:



The right and left fuselage panels are done in the raw as well. I think after detail painting and decaling, they will be OK:





And the rear cockpit bulkhead has been started. The right is done , less paint / decals / and detailing. We also started on a building up on the left bulkhead items starting with what I believe is the oxygen regulator. I still have to size down the part and make everything straight. The fittings and t-valves will either be scratched or from an online source. Here it is as a WIP:



And just to get our mind off the cockpit, we decided to remove the poorly done vent under the nose and in front of the front landing gear. The kit has it look like a solid indention with a couple ribs in it (no actual vent). We cut is out and then added individual vent fins based on online images.

Start:


Finish:


Going back to the cockpit, we still have plenty to do in the canopy area as shown in the images below:





Thats just about it for today. Hay!, at least I'm posting more than once every couple weeks. Before you know it Jarrod and I will be back to our old selves again (lets hope).

Till next time......

Ben and Jarrod

[digger303]

I like that gauge set your using so much so if I see one I'm going to get it.
Nice work on the vent.
I took another look at my 1/32 trumpeter harrier and after rereading a few reviews there seems to be a lot wrong with the kit including having the weapons pylons missing so I'm thinking I might just flip it.
Keep up the good work.

[cor]

That will such a nice model when you two are done with it. museum quality Im sure.

[Tomcat64]

Great to see you fitting out the cockpit, those gauges will absolutely help to bring it to life - that's an impressive sheet!

The nose vent worked out really nicely too.

Nice work guys

[Garion77]

Amazing work and scratchbuilding !

[DRUMS01]

I guess it's time to let you all know Jarrod and I are still here and modeling.

Since the last update we managed to add the leg straps to the front of the seat using lead foil. We also finished the throttle and pitch controls. We're not completely satisfied with the shape of the throttle control and plan to add a couple buttons on it; what do you think of it, should I create another one, or is it OK?

Next we proceeded to build up the rear bulkhead of the cockpit. One thing we noticed when viewing images, is that you have to be careful what version of the aircraft your looking at, as each models panels and bulkheads are different. I guess the same can be said for the ejection seat as well as those in the early British Harrier's were different than those of the AV8A and B and Harrier II. While not totally different in some cases, there were small but noticeable differences. Jarrod and I are not rivet counters, but we do want our efforts to appear authentic, so I hope the correct images were used when scratch building. SO I guess this is time for the disclaimer; most parts were created to replicate something similar to what might be found in a Harrier, it is not an exact 1:1copy.

Most of the rear bulkhead items were created using simple plastic sheet, rod, and solder. We did take some liberty on a few cast metal fittings, and PE that looked the part. The right rear panel contains around 35 parts or laminated pieces or "stuff". Digger asked early in the build about how we were going to use some of the jewelry items I purchased (?). If you look close, those fittings on the ends of the solder appearing like connectors are part of the jewelry.



While the right side used a few laminate blocks of plastic, the left side was not as easy. It also contains around 46 pieces, parts, stuff, including those metal cast 90 degree fittings, the jewelry simulated connectors, solder, resin switches, etc. Overall, Jarrod gave me his approval to say it looks close enough that once painted, a blind man on a fast horse looking from 10 feet away would think it looks OK.

The last area we are contemplating on updating in the cockpit before we begin painting is the area between the ejection seat rails. Specifically, the top area being close solid between the upper portions looks different than images I've found (below).



So, should we fix that area too or will it be mostly hidden?

The next area we will work on are the front and center landing gear and their bays. More on that soon. Let us know your thoughts on the throttle quadrant, and upper ejection seat rail area (?).









Thanks for looking, comments welcome.

[digger303]

I'm not familiar with all the different versions and what the lay outs are, to me as a non expert it looks very good.
I sometimes think being a non expert is better in order to appreciate the view instead of being able to say that's wrong or it needs to be 1 mm further forward.
Excellent work.

[Garion77]

Wow !!!! I'm just still stun as a much as with the previous build. Simply stunning. I'M trying to get more in scratchbuildind...but boy I hate working with CA glue so it doesn't help my patience. Your skills are just amazing. And the patience and time it must take... But it pays off ! One of the most detailed of modern planes I ever saw. And done nicely. Can't wait for the next update.

[RangerNeil]

My opinion for what its worth: With the seat in position that upper area is hidden so - unless you are obsessive rivet counters or plan on the seat being removable I would leave it as-is.

[Phillip1]

Drums01-VERY impressive attention to detail!

Phillip1

[DRUMS01]

Thanks everyone for the remarks and input. Other than adding a little more detail and shape to the seat harness, we are calling this part of the scratchbuild done.

I've moved on to the front landing gear and wheel bay to see what trouble I can get into. Jarrod and I believe we can use the existing toy gear and just add little things to it to make it more realistic.

Photo's coming soon....

[DRUMS01]

Here are a couple of images showing some of the work on the front landing gear and bay. Both still have a little more work ahead, but we are moving along. It is unfortunate that the kit has large screw joints appearing as large round pins inside of the gear well. They reduce the ability to detail the wheel well properly. With that said, we will try to incorporate some of the details to make it appear a little more believable.

Photos of Actual Items:







Modification of kit gear:





Next update should show the finished items....

Ben

[RangerNeil]

Just out of curiosity - once you have the bay assembled could you cement a piece of plastic card across the top to hold it all together permanently and then cut the screw joints out??

[digger303]

[DRUMS01]

Neil,

I'm looking into that, but also trying to minimize my scratchbuilding time in a place that will mostly not be seen. They appear to be there to add strength to the landing gear. If I was to make the gear fixed in one position it would most likely not matter and I could remove them. However, if I want the gear to be functional, then they may need to stay. I guess its time to make that determination.

It would be neat to make the hydraulics functional, but the time needed to make it work would be considerable.

[Tomcat64]

Just caught up on the last couple of updates and your scratchbuilding and adapting of different materials to get the result you're after continues to amaze.

That nose gear well will definitely be a challenge - just wondering whether you could remove the screw joints and replace them with brass rod which would possibly retain the reinforcement but be a smaller intrusion?

[DRUMS01]

Neal and Tomcat; After a closer look, we noticed that the dimensions along with the shape of the gear bay is not the same as the actual aircraft. The shallow area in the front of the bay is not the same, and the drop off in the rear either. The kit even has a angular taper in the front that would not allow any kind of accurate capture from the real aircraft. In order to replicate a near actual replication, I would have to modify several things , including the bottom end of the cockpit too. The gear bay would be almost 100% built from scratch, and the existing landing gear as well.

For Jarrod and I this is evolving from trying to replicate near reality, to just trying to make a sound model from a toy. So, we decided to simply "busy up" what is there. It will be loosely based on photos, along with some artistic interpretation. Based on the lack of detail in several areas of the kit and general shapes of some parts, it was never going to be an accurate model without considerable rework and scratchbuilding. Some other modelers have spent considerable time and effort making it much better than OOB. I am amazed and impressed with their work shown online and for that I commend them. But the gear wells are a place that does not reward the effort for authenticity rework.

We are moving forward on finishing it up and pictures will follow.

[digger303]

Sometimes that's all you can do.
I've decided to sell my Trumpeter 1/32 harrier for similar reasons and I'm going to go hunting for a Kinetic 1/48 early type which by all reports is more accurate.

[Phillip1]

DRUMS01-The modifications/additions to the front landing gear look great!

Phillip1

[DRUMS01]

Thanks for the input everyone and thanks Phillip for your kind remarks.

Been working a little on the front gear bay. More specifically,, I've been building then tearing it apart, then building again, then changing what was built, etc. I have made a keen observation, this gear bay is like the real counterpart in one way; it is difficult to fit the busy details in such a small space and still allow the gear to open and close properly. It doesn't make it any easier that the landing gear bay in the kit is not the correct shape.

So, for several hours Jarrod and I really do not have a lot to show for it. This first image shows where we covered holes that went through the inside of the bay from guide pins on the fuselage and corrected the rib detail. We also created the replacement forward bay floor that was cut away to move the cockpit back 1/8 ", and some additional support ribs. You can also see the conduit for the forward thrust port (it is the metal tube).



In this photo there is obviously more done. The hydraulics for the forward gear strut were created and attached It still has several fittings and lines to be added. Other bits have also been created and added. So far, I would call this about 25% complete. Most of what's left are the some minimal bracing, a lot of pumps, connectors, hoses, cables, and lines. We are still trying to attach the hydraulic actuators for the doors including the fittings and lines. We have them built but still are test fitting to ensure that the doors to the landing gear will open and close. Keep in mind, they will not be functional, but they cannot impede the landing gear and doors from working either.



I hope the next update will show most of the front bay done. Then we will move to the main gear and its bay.

[digger303]

Keep at it you both are doing darn well.

[DRUMS01]

Thanks digger, Even when we are just making it look busy with some similar parts, it's taking far longer than we thought it would with the scratchbuilding. From the last update to this one, we have around 10.5 more hours in what is shown here.
The images below are around 70% complete, still more wires, lines, hoses, bolt heads, and fittings to come.







Also, nearly every fitting is made from one or more jewelry parts. The rest is all plastic stock of some sort.

Jarrod and I hope that once it's all painted, decaled, and washed, it should look convincing.

Till next time!

Ben and Jarrod

[digger303]

[Phillip1]

DRUMS01-

Phillip1

[Garion77]

Just an awesome read and a masterclass to follow on scrathcbuilding. Can't wait for the next update

And ! It already looks convincing and real !!!

[DRUMS01]

Digger, Phillip and Garion,... thanks for checking in.

I must be my worst critic as I still find many issues with what I've ended up with. But, Jarrod and I believe we are calling the front landing gear and bay done. Since last images we added numerous lines, fittings, wires, hoses, and even a couple new pumps or hydraulic things. Here is what we call finished (as far as scratch building):













Next we started with the main gear and its bay. The first item was adjusting the space on the new wheels as they fit the kit strut. We had to file down the new metal center pin we previously added. Next we shaved the face of the wheel edge that mates up to the center pin in order to bring them closer together. Since they are "weighted" resin tires, we will wait to fix them on the strut as we want the air pressure sag to be in the right location when the gear is open and extended.

Moving away from the strut for a minute, Jarrod suggested we work on the main wheel bay. With these kit parts is more of the same (like the front wheel bay). What I mean is you still have large screw pin connectors running across the inside of the wheel bay:



This time we decided to remove the main one at the bottom of both parts:



And with little or no detail in the bay we searched for images. I will tell you that images for the main gear bay are not commonly available, at least we could not find many. We were lucky to locate this one:



One of the first things we noticed was that the wall of the gear bay was too far behind the strut. Even after creating a new wall it left gaping holes that would show inside the aircraft with the bay open. So after creating a new strut wall it was added and we took the next step to created the smaller area behind the wheel strut. It is the small rectangular box of sheet plastic extending from the gear bay. Next we began working on the exhaust conduit, perhaps going from one wing tip to the other, or I guess it could be the exhaust for the APU or something too (?). It was created using plastistruct tubing with a brass rod inserted down the center. That allowed us to shape it slightly. Then we added couplings with clamps using sheet plastic. The holes from the removed screw pin connectors were used for positioning the conduit similar to the photo above. The last thing we created today was the top of the wheel bay. Here we used sheet plastic along with square rod plastic. The dimples where the wheels nest were measured on plastic sheet, cut with a punch set and knife, then carefully sanded and filed to shape. Last, it was laminated to the other plastic sheet.

And this is where we stopped today:





There is plenty more items to create to include the actuator for the landing gear and hydraulics for the bay doors. Oh!, and lets not forget the other wires, hoses, lines, etc.

Thanks for looking, and remember that comments and input is always appreciated. Till next time!

[Phillip1]

DRUMS01-Fantastic work! How do you get good paint coverage on all that detail when the spacing is so tight?

Phillip1

[DRUMS01]

Phillip,

In cases like this, I find that the primer is the tell. If by spraying the primer it covers well then the sprayed top coat would too. If the primer leaves areas unpainted, which is what I’m expecting in the wheel bays, then I’ll brush paint the primer to cover the unpainted areas followed by a thinned top coat brush painted before spraying the final coat.

Hope the explanation makes sense.

[DRUMS01]

New update, the main landing gear bay is done.

Instead of trying to explain everything, Jarrod and I are just going to show you the results.

Making of detail parts:

(8 pieces on this so far)


(10 pieces on this so far)


Built hydraulics added:

(18 pieces in the hydraulics)


Back wall detail and top of floor:

(11 pieces so far)


Finished view, looking in:

Add it up plus another 18 pieces = 66 small parts total)


Soon we will have to start painting stuff, but first we have just a little detailing left to do in some areas. More on that during the next update.

Ben and Jarrod

[digger303]

[RangerNeil]

Excellent work so far!!

[cor]

Your scratch building skills are bringing that toy to another level.

[Garion77]

again and again so impressive !! A masterclass. I'm curious, in your 3rd picture, the line at the bottom of it that as a sort of a double pair of clamps... how did you achieve that ?

[DRUMS01]

Garion, the coupling was thin sheet plastic, cut to my desired width then wrapped around a plastic rod and the clamps were very thin sheet plastic cut narrow and wrapped around this first wrapped piece of plastic. I could get the thickness if that would help (?)…..

[digger303]

Garion, the coupling was thin sheet plastic, cut to my desired width then wrapped around a plastic rod and the clamps were very thin sheet plastic cut narrow and wrapped around this first wrapped piece of plastic. I could get the thickness if that would help (?)…..

Could we get a closer pic of that please, cause I'm not quite following your explanation.
Great scratch building skills though well show cased.

[Phillip1]

DRUMS01-Thanks for the paint explanation. I would not have guessed that any brush painting was involved. The scratch building continues to be excellent!

Phillip1

[DRUMS01]

Thanks for checking in and the encouraging words.

Digger, Here is a closer image of the rod with the thin sheet plastic wrapped around and then the very narrow sheet plastic wrapped over it to represent clamps.



Lately Jarrod and I have been working on other the air brake (?) and we will share images of the work soon.



Till then....

[digger303]

Thanks for checking in and the encouraging words.

Digger, Here is a closer image of the rod with the thin sheet plastic wrapped around and then the very narrow sheet plastic wrapped over it to represent clamps.



Lately Jarrod and I have been working on other the air brake (?) and we will share images of the work soon.



Till then....

Thank you.

[DRUMS01]

Next minor update, this time the air brake behind the main gear.

The kit was molded with the hydraulic cylinder (generous name for the kit part) hole and mount totally incorrect. For example, in the real aircraft the hydraulics come from the rear of the compartment and not from the top of it (see photo). You can also see who it is attached to the brake, including the recessed area for it to proper nest during the closed position.



And this is where the kit has the "blunt stick" going (center of the top):



A keen eye will note another hole on the forward compartment area facing the landing bay. If you do, that is a good catch on your part and a terrible lack of attention on mine. You see, I drilled the hole on the forward area of the compartment in error when it should've been drilled on the opposite compartment wall (to the rear). I was fortunately going to detail that compartment wall anyway, so the erroneous hole got covered in the process and the correct one created. We also covered the hole in the center of the compartment. The photo below also shows the corrected hole made to the rear of the bay.



The brake panel was also mis-shaped, as the mounting point was a tall mount which placed the hinge portion incorrectly, far above the brake panel. In addition, it did not have the depression shown on the actual image (shown as the black marker location on the kit part). So we carefully created the depression and cut the hinge pin much shorter to be closer to the actual location on the real thing. In the process we also added some round cover plates with a hole punch and added them, as shown in the actual image.



The kit part for the hydraulics was nothing more than a single blunt shaft, meaning it did not look even close to the intended item. So Jarrod and I thought , since we relocated the location of the hydraulics to where they belong, we should also create a functional appearing hydraulic cylinder. So after choosing two diameters of plastic rod (the larger one hollow to insert the smaller one into), we cut the head off the blunt shaft, drilled a hole in it and in the small plastic rod and pinned them together (we also added a spare part (hex nut) to make the part more authentic. To secure the cylinder in the new drilled hole we came up with the idea of adding a right and left set of legs on the end of the larger rod. Along with the new pieces we also drilled out some rectangular extruded plastic and cut them to length. The new legs on the large rod will fit in the rectangular holes. The rectangular part would then be glued to the back side of the compartment. They will be hidden within the aircraft, out of sight. That allowed the larger cylinder to show securely through the hole and pivot.



To finish the assembly, we added thin strip plastic and a small shaped connector for the hydraulic line. The line is more of the solder glued with a very small jewelry fitting added. And here it is fully functional as intended. The very small plastic rod is just holding it open and not part of the build.





More scratch building still to accomplish, but we will address that in out next update.

Thanks for following, comments welcome!

Ben and Jarrod

[digger303]

A very skilled team kicking goals non stop.

[digger303]

A very skilled team kicking goals non stop.

[Garion77]

Garion, the coupling was thin sheet plastic, cut to my desired width then wrapped around a plastic rod and the clamps were very thin sheet plastic cut narrow and wrapped around this first wrapped piece of plastic. I could get the thickness if that would help (?)…..

no need for the thickness but thank you. I would not have thought you could wrap plastic sheet on that small of circumference

[Garion77]

And you say a minor update for the airbrakes !! Boy amazing... again ! Following your build, I'm thinking you must a hell of collections of plastics bits and rods and others things. And another question.. I know you have great pictures to help you, but how do you choose the size of what you need ? That's something I struggle with for the small amount of scratch building I did on my side.

[DRUMS01]

And you say a minor update for the airbrakes !! Boy amazing... again ! Following your build, I'm thinking you must a hell of collections of plastics bits and rods and others things. And another question.. I know you have great pictures to help you, but how do you choose the size of what you need ? That's something I struggle with for the small amount of scratch building I did on my side.

Thanks Garion, but I do not consider myself the "do all" and "know all" of scratchbuilding. I can share what little knowledge I have based on my limited scope. First, I think you partially explained it in your response. What I mean is, a good reference image (photos or detailed drawings) is what I use to establish a comparative scale reference.

Another option I sometimes use is to scale the image or drawing that is reduced or expanded to match the scale I'm working on and print it out. And if that is not always available, then it's the classic "trial and error" method.

To be honest, there have been many times when the first or even the third scratch built item is tossed for one reason or another (fit, finish, realism, etc). Like most scratch building, I believe that along with good images, experience is a great helper. Specifically, the more you scratch build, the easier it is to establish component materials and dimensions.

Patience and establishing a standard that you would be satisfied with are also key. What I mean is, if you do not have the patience or the skills, for example due to age or physical abilities, then it might be more of a frustration than a benefit. In those cases, if it is beyond my abilities, I normally look for a 3d or aftermarket supplier. With all this said, I say... go for it! The more you scratch build, the easier it becomes.

If you're looking for more information regarding scratch building through 3d printing, then I'm not your man. Perhaps someone else could share that wisdom.

[Garion77]

And you say a minor update for the airbrakes !! Boy amazing... again ! Following your build, I'm thinking you must a hell of collections of plastics bits and rods and others things. And another question.. I know you have great pictures to help you, but how do you choose the size of what you need ? That's something I struggle with for the small amount of scratch building I did on my side.

Thanks Garion, but I do not consider myself the "do all" and "know all" of scratchbuilding. I can share what little knowledge I have based on my limited scope. First, I think you partially explained it in your response. What I mean is, a good reference image (photos or detailed drawings) is what I use to establish a comparative scale reference.

Another option I sometimes use is to scale the image or drawing that is reduced or expanded to match the scale I'm working on and print it out. And if that is not always available, then it's the classic "trial and error" method.

To be honest, there have been many times when the first or even the third scratch built item is tossed for one reason or another (fit, finish, realism, etc). Like most scratch building, I believe that along with good images, experience is a great helper. Specifically, the more you scratch build, the easier it is to establish component materials and dimensions.

Patience and establishing a standard that you would be satisfied with are also key. What I mean is, if you do not have the patience or the skills, for example due to age or physical abilities, then it might be more of a frustration than a benefit. In those cases, if it is beyond my abilities, I normally look for a 3d or aftermarket supplier. With all this said, I say... go for it! The more you scratch build, the easier it becomes.

If you're looking for more information regarding scratch building through 3d printing, then I'm not your man. Perhaps someone else could share that wisdom.

thanks for the input ! really appreciated