External Wiring Panzer III Ausf. J

[DrGrunge]

Hey guys, getting ready to start my first armor build which is Dragon 6954 a Panzer III Ausf. J

I have been researching this tank and want to be as accurate as possible and noticed Dragon does not include any wiring or wiring conduit for the front lamps or any other lamps (rear?). I noticed a picture of an Ausf. J in Panzer Tracts No. 3-3 that clearly shows wiring or wiring conduit from the slit lamps on front (Scheinwerfer) back and up over the fender to the lamps on the fenders (Seitenleuchte). I think those are the right german terms?lol. Can anyone point me in the right direction to get a better external wiring diagram as I can't tell where those wires originated and if there is any other visible wiring. I would assume there is also wiring for the rear. I have an idea for the wiring/conduit scratch build but can't give it a go until I'm sure how its wired. Thanks in advance for any help here...Ken, Ohio

[TheNordus]

I desperately want to be helpful, especially since I'm really into German armor, but I am not sure if I can just paste a photo I found online here due to copyright laws and everything. If you search for a Panzer III scale drawing, you should find a pretty clear line drawing of a Panzer III from all sides. The front light conduits do go from the headlights to the side lights. Personally I've never seen anyone add conduits to the rear lights.

[DrGrunge]

Thanks Tommi, I'll search for that image. I would imagine any rear lights would have the external conduit as well but not sure. Thanks again for the note an will keep you posted on what I find. Ken

[CygnusX1]

Hey guys, getting ready to start my first armor build which is Dragon 6954 a Panzer III Ausf. J

If you want a book, then Achtung Panzer #2 by Dai Nippon Kaiga has diagrams that show where the conduits go for the lights, Notek and horn on the front and the rear convoy light for all Ausf. variants of the Pz3.
The text is all in Japanese, but all the diagrams, pictures, drawings and such have English translations.

They've been out of print for years, so good luck finding a copy. They were horrendously expensive when they were new, and being out of print has only increased their prices second hand. This is the only book I know of that has these diagrams. They've got a website: http://www.kaiga.co.jp/ but it's all in Japanese so you'll need to run it through a translator, but they're currently out of stock, which doesn't surprise me.

Online: try primeportals: http://www.primeportal.net/the_battlefield_armor.htm
They've got walkarounds of various Pz3 and variants; whether it shows exactly what you want, I don't know, but you can pretty much work it out by looking at the cable tiedowns (if they're still there) and also any wiring that's still left.

Other than that, you can try World War photos: https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery ... tanks-2-3/
they've got something like 500 pics of Pz3's - again whether they show what you want in precise detail all in one pic probably isn't going to happen, but you can piece various pics together to get the information you need.

In all honesty, it's only the front wiring conduits that can be seen. The rear convoy lights wiring goes down through it's mount and down underneath the mudguard/fender; you can't see where it enters the tank, or the wiring, unless you're going to model a knocked out version that's on its roof.

Hope that helps.

[DrGrunge]

Hey Cygnus, thanks so much for the wonderful response here. Just what I needed and appreciate the time you took to add the links and your thoughts. I agree on the surface wiring is quite limited and the accurate front plumbing is the main modeling goal. However, I hope to see where the wiring for the rear goes through or around the mudguard/fender. I have some reasonably good pictures of the front but nothing on the rear which is where I will concentrate my search.

Such a great help, Thanks again. Ken

[DrGrunge]

Update on my Panzer III Ausf. J research. I have the front wiring worked out fairly well. The rear...I still can't see where the wiring for the convoy lights originates if through or over the fender. The actual pictures on prime portal show the bracket but no detectable hole through the fender or any hold down clips so I'm sure the wiring must go right down through the mount as Cygnus described, thanks for that. Of course this simplifies my scratch building of the conduit!

Next newbie questions on the Panzer III...I noticed in the schematics 5 small caliber chains hanging down from up under the rear plate. The actual tanks photos show clips on the ends. What were these used for?

When the rear fold up mud guard extension is folded up with the cut out for the convoy lights, Dragon instructions show a Haubenhalter or or spring loaded hold down I guess you call it? They show where the small end attaches to the fender extension but not where the hooked end hooks onto to hold up the guard?

The research is as fun as gluing plastic together!lol.

[DrGrunge]

Well I think I now see where the Haubenhalter hook attaches to the main fender when in the up position. Prime Portal shows a "C" shaped hook bolted to the right main fender that the hook on the spring loaded mud guard must hook to...Dragon has the clip thats mounted to the main fender on right side molded in. It's not "C" shaped and is smooth on both side so not sure how the hook would grab this. The left fender Dragon provides a "U" shaped hook to attach that appears to be where the spring loaded hook on the left mud guard attaches.

[CygnusX1]

Next newbie questions on the Panzer III...I noticed in the schematics 5 small caliber chains hanging down from up under the rear plate. The actual tanks photos show clips on the ends. What were these used for?

can you post a pic of what you're looking at?
or a link to a pic if you're worried about copyright? I've got a fairly good idea what it is you're referring to, but would like to confirm please.
and you're welcome.

[DrGrunge]

If you go to Prime Portal and look under the second Panzer III, Page 2, 3rd and 4th row down from the top pics. I also see them illustrated in Panzer Tracts No. 3-3 on the schematic drawing. Thanks so much...Ken

[CygnusX1]

If you go to Prime Portal and look under the second Panzer III, Page 2, 3rd and 4th row down from the top pics. I also see them illustrated in Panzer Tracts No. 3-3 on the schematic drawing. Thanks so much...Ken

Yep, as I thought they're the smoke candle tubes and retaining chains.
If you're going to use a PE set to detail your Pz3, then these chains and retainers will most likely be included. The tubes themselves are parts B10 and B11 (as per the instructions) in your kit.

How they work
1. the candles are loaded from the exterior and held in place by a small spring loaded lever
2. the lever is connected to a cable that goes into the fighting compartment
3. the retaining chain and hook (in your pics) are connected to the smoke candle firing pin
4. to release a smoke candle, the tank commander pulls the release cable from inside the fighting compartment
5. this action causes the lever holding the smoke candle in place to spring out of the way, and the smoke candle drops out of the tube onto the ground
6. once the retaining chain connected to the firing pin reaches its maximum length, the pin is pulled and the smoke candle is fired - this is all done by gravity and the weight of the smoke candle
7. the retaining chain then hangs loose as in the pics on prime portal
8. one pull on the release cable dispenses one smoke candle. subsequent pulls on the release cable will release another. So to dispense all 5 smoke candles in one go would require 5 consecutive pulls on the cable.

What they're used for:
Most tanks have some sort of smoke generating device so that they can manouver under cover of the smoke. These types of smoke candles are generally in launchers attached to the turret so that the candle is fired forwards in front of the tank, obscuring it from view by the enemy. The position of these candles on the rear plate indicates that they might be used more as infantry support and/or fighting retreats - ask yourself: why would you need a smoke screen behind the vehicle? unless the wind is blowing in the right direction, that's where it'll stay.

Hope that helps some.

[DrGrunge]

Perfect explanation oh wise one! Thanks much. the PE that comes in the kit of course is sparse and does not include chains and retainers. Is there an after market upgrade kit for this guy? I'm leaning towards a late Ausf. J. You've been a great help and certainly appreciate your taking the time to nurse along a fledging military modeler!

[CygnusX1]

Perfect explanation oh wise one! Thanks much. the PE that comes in the kit of course is sparse and does not include chains and retainers. Is there an after market upgrade kit for this guy? I'm leaning towards a late Ausf. J. You've been a great help and certainly appreciate your taking the time to nurse along a fledging military modeler!

I can't really recommend a specific set, but a quick rundown on a few of the main manufacturers:

Voyager; probably the best around. Their sets are reasonably comprehensive and usually have easy to follow instructions, and their brass has a real quality feel to it. Can be expensive. http://www.voyagermodel.com/

Aber: very comprehensive sets but their instructions are a bit of a mess imho - you can look at/download their instructions from their website to see what I mean - but their brass is very high quality but can also be expensive. http://aber.net.pl/

Eduard: their brass can sometimes be a bit heavy and/or thick, but will have a set for (pretty much) every model released by mainstream manufacturers. Reasonable instructions, but sometimes they don't include key details in one set so you have to get set "part two" from them, or they just don't include details you might find in a single set from a different manufacturer, but this is reflected in their price as they're very reasonable. https://www.eduard.com/

Both Voyager and Aber will expect you to have the materials on hand to make some details to fit their sets yourself - mostly things like different guages of wire for hinges etc. Eduard don't really do this so much. If you take a look at their instructions before you buy, you can see what you're letting yourself in for. All of them will expect you to have independent references to help with the placement of parts should their instructions be a bit... ambiguous.
Hope that helps, and good luck!

[DrGrunge]

Wow, the PE upgrade kit is almost as much as the kit itself! Was looking for JO35041 by Voyager and can't find one anyway except from China, and I'm not doing that! The kit itself will be fine and I'll scratch build the conduit and the smoke launch chains. I'll be doing the Ausf.J late with the L60 gun and call it Ausf.J/L. It will be the 7th Rgt., 10th Pz.Div. Tunisia 1943. I wanted to do #221 with Rommel sitting on the cupola and even purchased the figure set just to get him in that pose. However, can't see enough of the tank to make a good model of 221. So, I'll do number 16 per Dragon and a generic DAK camo over the Panzer Grey and still put Rommel up there not glued on just for fun. I'll post the build for for everyone's light entertainment as it will be my first piece of German armor. Much to do before that ever happens though...more later...Ken

[DrGrunge]

When reviewing the DML instructions I noticed the armor covers for the engine hatches (DML part Y35 x3) and ventilation hatches (DML part C2 x2) are the same exact size. According to the description in Panzer Tracts the Ausf. J had different size (shorter height on short axis) ventilation hatches over the cooling fans compared to the engine hatches which were taller (short axis). This is clearly described and illustrated. With the introduction of the Ausf. L, the ventilation hatches over the cooling fans were increased in size to that of the engine hatches. This is also illustrated and described on page 3-3-48. Dragon does not appear to give the correct covers for the Tp arrangement. My question is, does anyone know if the shorter cooling vent hatches are available in a different kit or aftermarket? Initial production Ausf. J didn't have the covers at all but mine is going to be a later production J and for DAK, which the covers were installed particularly for hot climates so even early ones were probably all fitted with the hatches for North Africa!...Thoughts?...Ken

[DrGrunge]

Here's a picture of the conduit I ran. Rather than just run the conduit, I also ran two wires from the conduit to the horn and light...appears fairly convincing. Ditto for the other side.

[digger303]

it is convincing ..nice job

[DrGrunge]

Thanks Digger, appreciate your thoughts. I still need to get some very small bolt heads for the conduit clamps.

[digger303]

Thanks Digger, appreciate your thoughts. I still need to get some very small bolt heads for the conduit clamps.

Meng do a styrene set on a card with different sizes...quite good
https://www.bnamodelworld.com/hobby-too ... eng-sps004